Curse

UnChosen · Sep 06, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Having the mid-liners bringing rez is not the most important things for me. IMHO, the most important thing is that every mid-liners should have some sort of self/party Heal/defense/support. Ex. Prot spirit on MM, Enfeebling blood on SS, Wards/Snare on eles, shouts for paragon, etc etc.

As good as prot is, it is overrated for PvE. Alot of the time I prot someone, and after one hit the person kites away, and the monster AI will auto attack the next closest person instead, making the prot nearly completely wasted. There's no way a monk can spam 10 energy prot spirit/spirit bond, and SOA has a 10 sec recharge.

That's why I think its much better for the entire party to share the protting and the monk concentrate on healing (while still having prot ready for more difficult situations).

Michael805 · Sep 06, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Except PSpirit & SoA will be able to hold the aggro of almost everything.

I don't get what you mean by "can hold the aggro of anything."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I usually don't play with PuGs, and alot of my friends are the same.

I usually don't PvE, and when I do it is with friends. I can't tell you the last time I was in a PvE group that included someone either I didn't know, or anyone in the party didn't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

This includes pre-kiting. And when I said "damage from range", I ment that nasty overbuffed Ele damage.

Con sets - +10 armor and -5 damage. That in combination with shields doesn't do a whole lot. And on top of that, you have increased health, making spirit bond a better choice over PS anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Okay.

SoA has a reacharge of 10 and PSpirit has a recharge of 5. The cast time is minimal at best and it will prevent almost all damage target party member will take. It can also be maintained by chance or 70% of the time.

Both the seeds have a recharge of 25 with one having a cast time of 2, which is quite large. Now, comparing the two you'll see SoA and PSpirit being the winner.

Why? PSpirit negates most of the damage anyway, as a large prot should do. When you've got enemies autoattacking for 100's at the start, PSpirit will turn 100's into 60's. The seeds will only turn it to an 80, and they aren't nearly as long as PSpirit. PSpirit will reduce all damage except life stealing to 60, but the seed will only heal a bit of the damage.

Taking SoA into account, you'll only be taking a damage of 0 after roughly 12 hits which basically means you won't need to spend any energy at all for the time it is active.

Under healers boon, it's 1 second. With an enchant set, both seeds total to ~18 seconds. Since both monks usually have both seeds, thats up to 36 seconds of seed total. Chain them, and you win HM. And, again, with cons, you might as well just use SB since you'll have 600+ health anyway, and they likely wont be hitting much over that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

With SoA at 0 damage per hit, compare 7 seconds to 5-6 seconds, and 10 recharge to 25 recharge. I think we have a winner.

Infact, comparing the two skils is quite stupid because they don't even have the same function. Healing =/= reducing.

Considering monsters rarely hit over what seed can heal, it's really not.

Tyla · Sep 06, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

In PvP the person usually kites away too. People in PvE will also autoattack the closest person next them too. This, and I usually bring some more defense.

By the way, you're not supposed to spam Spirit Bond or Protective Spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

I don't get what you mean by "can hold the aggro of anything."

Your aggro holder won't be taking any damage at all under most circumstances.

Quote:

Con sets - +10 armor and -5 damage. That in combination with shields doesn't do a whole lot. And on top of that, you have increased health, making spirit bond a better choice over PS anyway.

All depends on how much damage actually goes through. In Hard Mode, enemies are buffed to insanity, and Eles often blow you up.

Quote:

Under healers boon, it's 1 second. With an enchant set, both seeds total to ~18 seconds. Since both monks usually have both seeds, thats up to 36 seconds of seed total. Chain them, and you win HM. And, again, with cons, you might as well just use SB since you'll have 600+ health anyway, and they likely wont be hitting much over that.

Anything wins PvE because enemies are so retarded. That, and since when did enemies in HM PvE hit 30's? Even with cons.

glacialphoenix · Sep 06, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Michael: You are playing with a full conset, which means that there is a lot less pressure on you to prot due to the conset bonuses. This might not be the case for someone playing without the conset. Prot Spirit/SoA becomes a lot more useful when you don't have a conset activated, believe me. In your situation, you can afford to go pure healing. The reason why people like hybrid is because it can handle the pressure without needing consets to smooth the ride - and, in that sense, it's much more effective.

Michael805 · Sep 06, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

Michael: You are playing with a full conset, which means that there is a lot less pressure on you to prot due to the conset bonuses. This might not be the case for someone playing without the conset. Prot Spirit/SoA becomes a lot more useful when you don't have a conset activated, believe me. In your situation, you can afford to go pure healing. The reason why people like hybrid is because it can handle the pressure without needing consets to smooth the ride - and, in that sense, it's much more effective.

In my original post I actually meant that to be done with a con set, although I forgot to mention it. I believe I stated that it was with a con set on my next post, though.

Rikku Fae · Sep 14, 2008, 02:58 AM // 02:58

In PvP, Monks never usually bring resurrection spells because there aren't breaks in between battles, unlike PvE.

In PvE, if somone dies in the middle of battle, the monks should NEVER (Unless it's Unyielding Aura or whatever) resurrect. Monk resurrects are for out of battle, always. A non-Monk should use a resurrection signet to get the battle back going.

Now, let's say someone died in battle, but now the battle is over. Here are your options:

Option 1: Someone can use a Resurrection Signet to resurrect the dead person. This uses up the normally great 3 second cast, one time use resurrection skill.

Option 2: A monk can use a resurrection spell. Because you're out of battle at the time, the 5 second cast time won't make any difference. Now you've resurrected someone without using up a one-time-use resurrection skill.

And of course, there's the great Rebirth, which can save your party from wipes if, say, the majority of a party died in a battle, and the surviving members are alive, but backed out. Now the enemies are camping on top of the corpses.

Rebirth will resurrect and move the resurrectee to your location, away from the monsters!

Tyla · Sep 14, 2008, 10:06 AM // 10:06

If you're on a close wipe, just wiping would be better than Rebirthing your party. It saves time, and if 15% kills you that much, it's because of a major flaw in your team for said area. The only time you should be wiping is in the case of overaggros, and even then...

glacialphoenix · Sep 14, 2008, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you're on a close wipe, just wiping would be better than Rebirthing your party.

In explorables/GWEN dungeons where there are rezshrines, yes. In missions where there are no rezshrines and wiping means being kicked back to the outpost, it's a different story.

Tyla · Sep 14, 2008, 12:25 PM // 12:25

You make a good point, but even then if you're doing that you might aswell use res scrolls. I would rather have a Ranger or something run away with Rebirth, if you really need it that is.

I would just go with mid-battle res skills, such as Death Pact Signet if I really needed it. The Monk should be the last person fleeing, as it sends an "abandon all hope" scenario through the party since the Monk is the only thing capable of healing. (Rit and Paragon can heal too, but you get my point)

capitalist · Sep 17, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

when random pug-ing, always a sig.

cataphract · Sep 18, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

I have a question for all u experienced monks out there (i just got my first monk to lvl 20 even though ive had game since release

), are monks meant to resurrect party members? Every time I get in a PUG (and thats probably why...) I always get yelled at for not having a res with me. Is this a normal thing that uninformed players do or is it something i should change? Thanks for all input.

-Dean

I carry Rebirth whenever I pug. What differentiates me from the other pug monk is the fact I do not rebirth in the middle of a fight. Monks are here to prot and heal, not res when someone dies. You res after the baddies have been killed or have walked away.

N1ghtstalker · Sep 18, 2008, 09:22 AM // 09:22

i'm not sure
i'd rather put the [resurrection chant] on my ele heroes instead of my monk
why is very simple
if you're fighting in HM and someone dies your hero will immediatly start ressing
that's your team 6 seconds without a monk and that is bad when fighting a mob

Unreal Havoc · Sep 18, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

i'm not sure
i'd rather put the [resurrection chant] on my ele heroes instead of my monk
why is very simple
if you're fighting in HM and someone dies your hero will immediatly start ressing
that's your team 6 seconds without a monk and that is bad when fighting a mob

You can control your heroes manually you know. Just disable the skill and have the hero use it when appropiate.

One way or another everyone should bring some form of resurrection. Whether it be a spell, signet, or scroll. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Burst Cancel · Sep 18, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

As has been said countless times, the problem with putting it on the monk is that wasting the skill slot makes it more likely that you'll need it.

Chthon · Sep 19, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

1. When playing with other people, by default everyone should always carry rez (or discuss it with their team before you leave town). Thanks to rez scrolls, there's really no excuse anymore for not having rez.

2. As for what to do with your monk specifically, I'd say this: There comes a point in the difficulty curve where the monk bar just gets too crowded and you absolutely have to drop rez to make everything fit. Up until that point, having a hard rez to pick the PUGlings up when they die is probably well worth it. Beyond that point, bring scrolls.

3. As for battle-rezzing, that's generally not your job. Most of the time you should leave that to mid-liners who can pack things like DPSig. However, if you really care to, Unyeilding Aura can be used pretty much instantly for a battle-rez -- and should be. (Unfortunately, it also means you're using UA for your elite...) Also, HBoon + RezChant is fast enough to sometimes be acceptable in my book, if the dead party member is important enough and the risk of someone dying while you rez is low enough.